Apr 172009

There was a comment, on the Raiding Rogues post, on the question of hit rating. I use ElitistJerks.com and ArenaJunkies.com for a lot of my info. I’ve also been using the Recount addon, which gives some interesting numbers for hits, misses, and so on.

Here’s the comment:

Hi, Just looking for sum answers to questions i have been asking myself but as yet have not found any answers. I am level 80 comat rogue with a hit of 294(need 315 apparently)but have not worn my Gloves of fast reactions, titainium chocker and titainium impact band because the blue items have all hit on them and changing them moves me away from the hit cap? Any suggestions? I guess what am asking is is it worth upgrading to items with better Agility and AP but loosing a lot of Hit?

So based on recount numbers… If you’re combat or using the above build, or something like it, then you should have the precision talent. With a PvP version I’m working with about 130 hit and, according to recount numbers, I’m not missing on any strikes fighting in the BGs or against level 80 mobs. Fighting raid bosses, and the raid boss target dummy in Org, with a 200 hit rating, the miss rate was around 15%.

How much Hit you need depends on what you’re fighting. Generally mobs require less Hit rating than players/elites which require less than raid bosses.

How much hit is needed? Here’s my qick and dirty answer, since you already have precision from the combat tree:

  • When fighitng mobs, you’re good. Upgrade your gear.
  • Same answer for PvP, though high end arenas might be different. PvP hit caps are a bit lower than for Raid Bosses.
  • Raiding is more complicated and I’m not a raider. Not yet, anyway. Part of it depends on the raid buffs you have and the debuffs on the boss.

There’s a concept called Agility Equivalence Points (AEP) which tries to measure the value of various stats. These numbers will change depending on exactly what you’re fighting. For example, a PvP calculation involves stamina and resilience, while raiding doesn’t.

So a general AEP table, for raiding, looks like this (taken from ElitistJerks info🙂

  • Expertise rating: 2.6
  • Hit rating: 2.4
  • Agility: 2.2
  • Haste: 2.1
  • Crit rating: 1.7
  • Strength: 1.1
  • Attack Power: 1

Multiply the stat for your gear by the numbers above. For example…

  1. Gloves of Fast Reactions : 66Ag, 64 Stm, 38 Crit, 49 haste, 110 AP
  2. Dropping Stam, we have: (66 x 2.2) + (38 x 1.7) + (49 x 2.1) +  (110 x 1) = 424.27
  3. Now do the same for your blue gear. The highest number gives the best DPS for raiding.

The point is that your better gear will provide enough extra DPS to more than make up for the lack of hit, so go for the upgrade.

For PvP Stamina and the Resilience stat are important, though I’ll go out on a limb and say that the importanceof Res is situational. Rogues die very quickly in PvP and Res doesn’t slow that down much.


Apr 082009

I’ll state this upfront – I’m a newb when it comes to raiding. I finally joined a guild (with my 80 Rogue) which does some raiding (mostly PUGs) and when asked,”Hey, ya wanna join us for (some raid abreviation)” my answer is typically, “What’s that?”

So I prodded a friend, who does raid a lot, into writing an article on Rogue Raid DPS which I found quite useful. Now it’s time to start playing around with some of this stuff and see what I can come up with and see if I can get to the point where my Rogue is useful.

My first raid was 25 Man OS (no drakes) and I beat most of the healers for DPS output. I was running a PvP mutilate build and had no clue so didn’t respec.

More browsing brought me to the ElitistJerks.com Roguecraft Spreadsheet which factors in a huge amount of stuff. It includes a Mutilate build and various defaults for maximum DPS.

I specced into that build and hit 2k DPS on the Orgrimmar practice dummies, so maybe there’s hope for cracking the top 20 of a 25 man raid?

Anyway, here’s what I’m working with for now:

Mutilate Build Details

Here’s the build on WoWhead

Note: this is a dagger build and assumes use of instant and/or deadly poisons. Lev 80 (non elite) mobs go down real fast with this build.


  1. 5/5 Malice – more crit chance
  2. 3/3 Ruthlessness – more combo points
  3. 2/2 Blood Splatter – Adds to your DoTs
  4. 3/3 Puncuring Wounds – +15% Mut crit, +30% Backstab crit
  5. 5/5 Lethality
  6. 3/3 Vile Poisons – Greater chance to actually apply poisons
  7. 2/2 Fleet footed – Moved faster while stealthed and spend less time being rooted
  8. 1 Cold Blood – add this into a macro with your favorite strike. I add mine to Eviscerate.
  9. 5/5 Seal fate – Use less energy
  10. 3/3 Focused attacks – gain energy from crits
  11. 3/3 Find Weakness – All damage increased by 6%
  12. 1 Mutilate – Your bread and butter attack
  13. 3/3 Turn the tables – Adds 6% crit chance to bread and butter attacks. lots of arguing going on over whether to choose this or 3/3 Master Poisoner. Comments?
  14. 5/5 Cut to the chance – lets you keep Slice and Dice up permanently.
  15. 1 Hunger for Blood – More damage, Rarr! Edit: Will be changed (improved?) when the 3.1 patch hits.


  1. 5/5 Dual Weild Specialization – More DPS
  2. 5/5 Precision – Your Dual Weild gives a major “to hit” penalty. This compensates somewhat.
  3. 3/5 Close Quarters cbt. – More crit chance


  1. 5/5 Relentless Strikes – Restores energy
  2. 2/2 Opportunity – +20% damage to your bread and butter strikes.

Weapons I’m using right now. Both drop off the Auction House.

  1. Main – Titansteel Shanker
  2. Off hand – Librarian’s Paper Cutter


  • Exceptional Agility (+26 ag) on Main hand
  • Titanium wpn chain on off hand (+28 hit rating)

I’ll be playing with some weapon choices, poison combos, gems, etc. to see what I can do to boost DPS.  Your comments? Thoughts? Changes? What do you have to say?

Edit 4/9: Joined a PUG into 10 man OS. Hit almost 2400 dps on the trash (#2 on the DPS list,) but the group disintigrated before the first drake. No one died, but people suddenly realized they had to wash their socks, so poof. All of a sudden I’m raid leader with two people in the raid.

The Recount addon said I had a miss rate of almost 15%, so I guess I need to look for more Hit ratng. Might try the Titanium Weapon Chain on the main hand as a start and swap an Ag gem for a Hit gem.

Changed off-hand to Namlak’s Supernumerary Sticker

Mongoose provides better DPS than Exceptional Agility and Berserking is better still, but Mongoose is over 400 gold (and Berserking is a lot more.) I’ll see if I can get better weapons before blowing that much cash on Berserking.